Mujahid Talks - Understanding the Capitol Hill Terrorists |

Mujahid Talks - Understanding the Capitol Hill Terrorists

Watch our show Mujahid Talks with Imam Malik Mujahid in conversation with Daryl Johnson

Interviewed: 11 AM Central Time Monday Jan 11 2021 only on Muslim Network TV


Daryl Johnson - Experts on Domestic Extremist Groups in the US


Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid - President of Sound Vision and Justice for All.

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Unoffical Transcript:

Abdul Malik Mujahid  00:06

Salam and peace. This is Imam Malik Mujahid and you're watching Muslim network TV. Muslim network TV is always there wherever you're watching Muslim it is on galaxy 19 satellite covering whole United States, Canada and Mexico coast to coast east to west north to South 57 million subscribers throughout the country. You can always watch us on Ott devices like Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Roku, or download our app, Muslim network TV, have our own website, Muslim Today, we will try to understand who are these people who invaded Capitol Hill? And what are their names? What are their organizations? What are their ideologies. I'm in a CNN bosses have allowed cnn to call them terrorists I mean, who needed permission of anybody to call anybody anything. But anyway, they are doing it. One thing is clear that they were there on the call of President Trump. And there were extreme right wing militia. There are names of those who give a call. I visited their website and several of them were armed. It included elected leaders also Mayor legislators, different people serving in different capacities, some police officer, a lot of veterans, so but there is a count, investigate if there were soldiers who are on duty who participated in there as well. There have been a I mean these people who are talking about openly about capturing leader not only Pelosi but also Vice President Pence and executing them. Clearly they have set up  a gallows with nose hanging there, which has been widely photographs and they were tweeting, hang Mike Pence to the level that Twitter has to stop that hashtag from trending. So it was pretty open. And it was extremely well planned. Washington Post reported today that the day before the invasion of the US Capitol, and the arm of the republican Attorney General's there is something called republican republican Attorney General Association. It sent out a robo call asking supporters to come to DC and quote unquote, fight Congress or President Trump's baseless I mean  fight Congress. That was the call they have given an army Secretary have told some senators, and they have issued that that Pentagon code is aware of further possible threats posed by would be terrorist in the days up to an including inaugural day, unquote, and is coordinating with local and federal law enforcement. So the danger of terrorism has not passed. There's still ongoing danger. But what shocked me really was that in one of the media interviews, somebody interviewed, I think it was New York Times a teacher. And the teacher was okay with what was going on. And when the reporter asked people standing around, it turned out three other teachers who are part of that group as well. I wonder how many other teachers were there? It surprised me, but then I started recalling. Remember Ahmed, the kid who, with different parts changes developed a clock and as a science project in Texas, who teachers call police and police actually handcuffed the seventh grader. And there was a big news about that. But what there was not a big news was that 25% of all teachers are Islamophobe who are involved in harassing and discriminating against Muslim kids. So this seems to be not limited to some right wing militas of teachers and officers and firefighters. Then there are our neighbors Who are these neighbors? And what they believe in? Well,

Abdul Malik Mujahid  05:05

I'm not an expert. Let's try to understand a little better about our neighbors. And who's doing that through an expert he is Daryl Johnson. Welcome to Muslim network TV. Darrell.

Daryl Johnson  05:19

Thank you for having me.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  05:21

There. Johnson is an expert on domestic extremist groups in the United States. He is founder of DT analytics, and formerly a senior analyst at the Department of Homeland Security. Well, welcome to Muslim network TV. Dan, what what are you doing at the Department of Homeland Security?

Daryl Johnson  05:46

Yeah, so I was a senior intelligence specialist in charge of looking at domestic non Islamic extremism and domestic terrorism. So I was a team lead. And I had an analyst working under me looking at different domestic threats.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  06:01

So what was the size of that team?

Daryl Johnson  06:05

So it was myself and there were five other analysts. And then we had two other analysts, supplementing our team. One was an open source analyst that was looking at publicly available information on the internet, and another analyst looking at kind of futures alternative analysis. So there's a total of about seven or eight of us.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  06:26

How many are there left?

Daryl Johnson  06:30

Well, there's no one currently in the office of intelligence and analysis devoted to looking at these subjects full time. They kind of supplement and complement state and local fusion centers efforts. But there's no one no analytical team looking at this issue. Since my team was dissolved in 2009.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  06:48

It was actually dissolved.

Daryl Johnson  06:51

Yes. Yeah, they did a total restructuring. They stopped all the valuable training and reports that we were writing.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  07:01

Hmm. So what's the reason was there was not enough funding, or the reason was that you guys were doing a pretty bad job, or what was reason?

Daryl Johnson  07:12

We were actually doing a very good job. We had lots of letters of recommendation from, you know, police chief sheriffs, for the different support that we offer. It was all done for political reasons. I had written an assessment that forecasted the rise of anti government and hate groups, what we call right wing extremism. And it was used as a political tool to bash the new incoming Obama administration, by the conservatives and the Republican Party.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  07:45

And Obama, President Obama administration, gave in

Daryl Johnson  07:51

pretty much, you know, they put up a little bit of a fight in the beginning to try to defend the report. But once conservative criticism mounted, the Obama administration pretty much caved into the political pressure.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  08:05

Well, news is that most of the people selected by the president elect by then are the Obama staffers, do you expect any, any better focus on the right wing extremism?

Daryl Johnson  08:23

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say, yes, given what's happened, not only in the past 10 years, but this recent capital siege, I think we'll provide enough determination from these individuals to finally start taking this threat seriously.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  08:41

But let's talk about Who are these people? Tell me who are these people? Do you know them?

Daryl Johnson  08:52

I don't know them personally, but they're representative of our, you know, families and communities throughout the country. They're conservative leaning, they're very avid Trump supporters. And they've been pretty much brainwashed into thinking that this election was rigged, and that there was rampant voter fraud. And they have answered the President's call and coming to Washington DC to defend what they perceive their constitutional rights being eroded.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  09:24

Hmm. You you put it in a way that these are all over. I mean, you You didn't say this, that particular this group or that group, but there are all our people, all our neighbors.

Daryl Johnson  09:39

Yeah. So you had a large crowd that came in from, you know, various parts of the country. And then within this crowd of, you know, people that were concerned, although their concerns were invalid. You had these hardcore extreme elements, Representative groups, like the oathkeepers The three percenters and people that adhere to the q&a and conspiracy theories. These are the individuals that are more hardcore radical. And we're pretty much at the center of all the violence that we saw last week.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  10:16

So there are different layers and layers of commitment of different people. One of the name which has come in different newspapers are they were a three percenters. What is three percenters?

Daryl Johnson  10:33

So three percenters are a segment of the modern day militia movement. These are paramilitaries that, you know, armed themselves conduct paramilitary training. So they refer to themselves as the three percenters because their founder believed that only 3% of the colonial Americans took up arms against the British occupation during the American Revolution. Now, this, you know, fact has never been substantiated by historians. But their belief is that they represent the 3% of modern day Americans that are taking up arms against the tyrannical US government.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  11:15

Okay, so so when were they founded Any idea?

Daryl Johnson  11:19

Yeah, they were founded in 2008, by a man called Mike vanderburgh. He's since deceased. But he came up with this movement and this idea, and it's a lifestyle, these people adhere to these belief systems as family units. And, you know, the whole family is pretty much part of the 3% movement. They have various chapters across the United States. In fact, there's been some splintering among the groups. So there's different factions within the 3%, or movement. But it's representative by 1000s of people across the United States.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  11:58

That definitely has a large following, because I was looking at Alexa, which is a Amazon company, about the ranking their website ranks at 118,000 level in the United States. So a whole lot of people visiting it. So, so are they focus in any particular part of America or get scattered.

Daryl Johnson  12:22

They are representative throughout all 48, continental United States and even Alaska. They did have a large social media presence. So even the numbers that you're citing are just websites, they recently had a lot of their Facebook pages and Twitter accounts shut down and banned. So there was actually probably a lot more social media presence, you know, several months ago.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  12:51

So you mentioned that they started 2008 did it coincide intentionally with the election of President Obama thinking that he's a, he's a Kenyan born Muslim, and we have to protect our country?

Daryl Johnson  13:11

Absolutely. And along with that, you know, Barack Obama was a Democrat. And so these militia groups are very fervent about their second amendment rights. And they always fear that when a democrat comes into power, that that's going to lead to you know, new gun laws and gun restrictions and even gun confiscations. And so a lot of fear and paranoia within their belief system centers on the democrats taking their guns away.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  13:40

Hmm, yeah. And remember that the 2008 2009 there was a historic a spike in terms of people purchasing guns, and the same thing is happening now, by the way, I mean, I was there to get my car fixed and African American mechanic and he was armed. And he got licensed. His mother got licensed his sister got license, and they saying, oh, it is very difficult to find ammunition nowadays. I see what you I thought you're, you're not into these things. Well, you got to protect yourself. So it seems now not only the right wing, but I mean, this guy's absolutely non political, but people are sense of insecurity seems to be spreading beyond the ideological ranks, it seems like now. So these three percenters were present in the i mean it is  I read some newspaper report that they were present in the invasion of Capitol Hill.

Daryl Johnson  14:47

Yeah, so you can tell some of these people by the some symbols that they wear on their clothes or flags that they may be flying. So there's a whole symbology that goes along with these different extremist movements. So the three percenters some of the symbology, that's associated with them, is the Roman numeral three, which represents the 3%. Sometimes the guest and minimum flag that yellow flag with the snake coiled up. So don't tread on me, is also affiliated with three percenters as well as militia members and other anti government groups.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  15:23

You're watching Muslim network TV, this is Imam Malik Mujahid. And talking with right wing extremist expert, Daryl Johnson, whose department was just simply you section in the Homeland Security to watch are shut down when President Obama's administration caved in, because they were reporting about these people. We'll be right back after these messages.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  16:27

Welcome back to Muslim network TV, we're talking with Daryl Johnson, who's an expert on those people who are a part of invading Capitol Hill. There is another group which was a standing there, they had this olive drab shirts, helmets and patches, and saying guardian of the Republic, and Not on our watch and things like that. oathkeepers, who are oathkeepers.

Daryl Johnson  16:59

So oathkeepers is an anti government group that was founded in April 2009. And they have representatives across the country as well, chapters and their specific focus is trying to recruit former current military police officers and firefighters into their organizations, and they call themselves the oathkeepers. Because they have their members swear an oath to the organization to basically protect their interpretation of the Constitution and what they feel the country should be represented by.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  17:40

And this seems to be more popular than three percenters on the website. I haven't checked the social media, but their ranking is 38,000 in the United States, which is extremely wide and 671 websites are linking to them, which is extraordinary. major corporations don't have that type of ranking. Most of the not for profit organizations don't have this type of ranking. And they they very openly say that, on their website, our men, our current serving, or prior service law enforcement. And notice the you know, this is their declaration from their site, current serving prior service, law enforcement, military and other first responders, such as EMT, and paramedics and firefighters, this is what they're saying their membership is. Is it legal for serving military and serving police officers to join a militia like that.

Daryl Johnson  18:47

So this group isn't particularly a paramilitary organization, like three percenters, they're more of an anti government group, but they do have members of the militia within their ranks. But here in America, you know, these people have constitutional rights to believe in these conspiracy theories, and then this hatred. And so for a long time, they hide behind the First Amendment protection of free speech. And a lot of police and military organizations haven't taken any action towards them. But as we've seen this summer with all the social unrest related to social injustice, now, we've seen this, you know, Riot at the Capitol, this insurrection and you know, these people participating in it, it really points to the fact that should these people, who are you know, empowered to police our streets and to protect our nation, they're trained in, you know, firearms and other types of weapons, whether these people are trustworthy, to hold these positions and whether or not they should have security clearances. Because obviously, when you belong to a group that believes in conspiracy theories, or, you know, is conducting paramilitary training, and you're Participating in insurrection against the government. These types of activities, you know, are not conducive to people who have been entrusted by the community with these, you know, police and military powers. So I would encourage, you know, the military as well as police departments to look at these individuals, not from a criminal standpoint, but from a, you know, insider threat, counterintelligence, operational security concern, should these people possess clearances, I don't believe they should, because they're not trustworthy. And they're not showing us that they can be objective, and enforcing, you know, our laws and, you know, protecting our country. So we need to take administrative action against these people remove their clearances, put them on desk jobs, rather than patrolling our communities, and restrict them from having access to sensitive information as well as sensitive areas in the department.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  20:59


Abdul Malik Mujahid  21:00

Do they drive some of their you know, I was on the website oathkeepers, I saw that they're going to be there in Washington DC, of course, they were mobilizing to keep an eye on antiform to attack so weak or disabled or families, like the hyenas, they are, quote, unquote, so So are they do they thrive on a conceived opposition?

Daryl Johnson  21:32

Yeah, this has been a recent wrinkle, to their belief systems is this threat of antifa. It's been furthered by the President's false accusations that antifa is a terrorist organization. You know, some antifa members did engage in civil disturbance and violence during the social injustice protests, but it's a much smaller movement. And, you know, it's lone individuals, it's not a terrorist organization, per se. So this threats kind of been hyped and manufactured. And now, these different extremist groups on the far right, are looking at them as a major threat to their communities.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  22:15

So, like, three percenters and oathkeepers, with the website and social media presence, is antifa also has a website and social presence and they behave like an organization.

Daryl Johnson  22:31

Like I said, to my knowledge, they don't have a website, they're more of a belief system, a movement. So you can't look at these as organizations, they're basically people that are standing up to the fascism and protesting it. And you do have some, you know, violent elements of it, and some criminal activity that was associated with it. But, you know, by and far, when you compare these two threats, the far right far outweighs and is shown far more violence, far more deaths involving people than the far left activists have to this point.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  23:11

Their website of the oathkeepers says that they work side by side with many other patriot groups and veteran organizations. And they have given a call, okay, we are going everybody should come and we will, we'll coordinate our action. So is, is coordination among these militia groups is a well established thing or the coordinate on action, but not otherwise.

Daryl Johnson  23:39

They've been getting better and better at communicating and forming these Coalition's and, you know, coming together against a common enemy, whether it be Democrats, the media antifa, what have you. So we have seen a greater level of sophistication and coordination with these far right groups than we have in the past.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  24:07

But these organizations have taken a stand against the federal government, they have been threatening federal employees and all that is, I mean, the famous case was that Bundy and Bundy's cows are still roaming around the federal property. And he's not paid any fines. And the three percenters and the oathkeepers were involved at the time, they didn't suffer anything. And they threaten is threatening federal officers and things like that is legal.

Daryl Johnson  24:46

Now it's illegal and there were some people that were at the Bundy standoff in 2014. As well as the now here standoff in 2016. That did face federal charges for threatening federal officials. But As you state, you know, cliven Bundy himself who remains a figure in the far right, as continues to, you know, instigate and call for action against the government. And we're going to be seeing this type of stuff in the near future for the next few years.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  25:21

So I'm in the he's the hero, I mean he was victorious, federal government forces retrieved. And so, so did that encourage further recruitment that federal government was nice and kind to them?

Daryl Johnson  25:39

certainly did. The fact that, you know, number one, they had that standoff that help recruit people and radicalize them. But then when the charges against abundant cliven Bundy and his other co conspirators were eventually thrown out of court, then additionally in bold and some of these people and and further their defiance towards the federal government, much like this capital siege did.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  26:06

So capital siege you think, will encourage further recruitment?

Daryl Johnson  26:13

Yeah, a lot of people were looking at this as kind of, you know, the last dying breath of a movement in desperation. But no, this is actually a beginning of a new radical form of right wing extremism. And it's not going to be going away anytime soon. So don't have the false sense of hope that just because they had this big rally at the Capitol, and that they were able to storm the Capitol. And they feel like they've accomplished some of their goals. This is just another event in a long series of events that's been going on for a decade. And we'll go into the future for years to come. So we need to get ready now to you know, get serious about this threat and start developing policies and procedures and devote resources and money to combat this problem, or is this going to continue to get worse.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  27:07

I mean, you mentioned devote resources and money to research and all that. I mean, government is government, we'll talk about the government and what to expect from Biden administration. But in civil society, are there people who are seriously looking at these things?

Daryl Johnson  27:24

Well, thank goodness, we have the private sector and academia started looking at this issue right after my report was leaked and pilloried in the media, we started getting more interest in academia and non non government think tanks are looking at this. And so we're developing better capabilities to kind of fill in these information gaps that we weren't aware of like funding and how they're organizing and how they're networking with each other and how they recruit and radicalize. So that's about the only good thing that's been happening because the federal government really hasn't taken this threat seriously until last year.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  28:05

When you say federal government hasn't taken this threat seriously. Until last year, but but you know, there were reports FBI, I think seeing that right winger is some is number one, or domestic terrorism is the number one threat and things like that. So they are part of the government. So So is it the same situation that one part of the government doesn't know what other part of the government doing?

Daryl Johnson  28:34

Well, the FBI, you know, there are federal law enforcement agency, and they did come out on the record in 2019, finally, stating that this is a national security threat. You know, I called that threat out back in 2009. And we had a decade where basically everybody ignored the problem, downplayed it, try to dismiss it, and hoped that it would go away. But it's just grown stronger year after year plot after plot, attack after attack. So finally, the FBI recognizes this in 2019. I think I was a little bit too late, but at least they did acknowledge it, and they're starting to do something about it. Now. We need other federal agencies as well as our legislators, the President, or state governors, everybody needs to get on board and acknowledge this threat and bring all resources to bear on this problem so that we can repel it and try to get our society back to normal.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  29:31

You are watching Muslim network TV This is Imam Malik Mujahid, I'm talking with Daryl Johnson who is an expert on those people who invaded the Capitol. We'll be right back after these messages.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  30:22

Welcome back to Muslim network TV. This is Imam Malik Mujahid and we are talking with Darrell Johnson, who's an expert on right wing extremist and 10 years ago, he predicted that these things are the something which we need to pay attention to, in terms of ideology. Now, I like to understand different parts of this ideology. And, you know, oathkeepers websites says help us I'm quoting, help us defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. So, so this thing comes because they believe that the federal government itself is not enough to protect the constitution against all enemies. What are the basis of this, this thought in these groups,

Daryl Johnson  31:21

so you got to remember, these individuals have a different interpretation of what the Constitution is to them. It's not representative of what the country feels, and it's only representative predominantly white America, Judeo Christian beliefs. So they feel that, you know, the government through its policies, you know, expanding rights to minorities, letting you know, immigrants come in to the country, allowing Muslims to worship freely, that these are threats to what their perception of the United States and democracy is. And like I said, it's a false notion that's basically built on a patriarchal misogynistic viewpoint of America as well as a Christian America. They don't look at it as the melting pot where there's people from all countries, cultures and religious backgrounds to come together and unite. They want a predominantly white America based on Judeo Christian values. And, you know, stop immigration from coming in and stop the browning of America.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  32:30

You mentioned Judeo Christian values couple of times, but there were people with anti semitic messages there. One was wearing this phrase on his sweatshirt camp, Auschwitz. And so so so there is a mix of anti semitic people in there as well.

Daryl Johnson  32:50

Yes, so we did have white supremacist and anti Semites attending this rally, and they're also part of this, you know, broad movement of right wing extremists as well.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  33:04

And, but probably one thing common among them is being Islamophobes. And anti muslim.

Daryl Johnson  33:12

Yes, that is a, you know, the heart of particularly the anti government and the white supremacist groups is this notion that, you know, Muslims are here in America, they're increasing in numbers, they're building mosques in our communities. Soon, they're going to be implementing Sharia law. These are the misperceptions and conspiracies that are out there that fueled this Islamophobia.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  33:35

So do you think that Muslim community need to be more concerned about about the right right wing and their ideologies in terms of their personal security or security of their properties?

Daryl Johnson  33:51

Definitely. I mean, white supremacists, you know, hate all races and people but in particular, the three percenters pose a unique threat to the Muslim American community, because they have a lot of returning veterans that have fought in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they come back with these preconceived notions about Islam and Muslims. And they are the ones that have been targeting and actively carrying out attacks and plotting attacks against Muslims. couple of cases that come to mind is the Minnesota White Rabbit militia, which was comprised of three percenters they threw a pipe bomb into a mosque in Bloomington, as well as tried to burn down an abortion clinic. We also had the Crusaders militia out in Kansas a few years ago that was caught plotting to detonate a vehicle bomb as Somali immigrant apartment complex, predominantly Muslim Americans there. We've also had, you know, armed protests held at mosques conducted by the three percenters, so You know, I would encourage, you know, Muslim leaders as well as, you know, Muslim followers here in America, to be aware of your surroundings. And if you have a three percenter militia in your community, that definitely bears watching. And you should be working with your local law enforcement, as well as the media, to, you know, form lines of communication, establish relationships of trust, to kind of keep an eye on these types of threats in your community.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  35:34

There was one mentioned that they these people who invaded, many of them believe that Trump is God's way of preparing for the rupture. So what is that?

Daryl Johnson  35:49

Yeah, so a lot of these right wing extremist groups have radical interpretations of, you know, scripture. They believe that they're living in the End Times. They believe that, you know, Christ coming as soon. And so they feel that they have a part in hastening, you know, preparation for Jesus Christ's return. And so there's a lot of Christian fundamentalist beliefs within these right wing extremist movements. And sometimes they use the Bible to justify criminal activity and violence.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  36:23

Daryl one of the things which, you know, one person, one participant who became very prominent is because she was killed by a police officer. And she was trying to enter the area where Congress persons were there and police officer first tried to block Finally, they probably were tired or hurt. This radiograph that all those three officers who were in front of the mob, and the door was behind them left. And then when they gave ....., they say, Excuse me, police officer who shot and Miss Bebek. So one thing unique about her, which has come out is a one, of course, she was a young person, 35 year old, probably 15 year veteran of the Air Force. But she was Obama voter. So it seems that she was citizen, she was not a racist person. And she voted for a person who was accused of being born in Kenya and accused of being Muslim, none of that being true. And she keeps mentioning that and she defends that Obama did this good and that good. How that a person like that is transformed into a person who's taking a leading role in this invasion of Capitol Hill.

Daryl Johnson  37:57

It just goes to show you how people can be recruited and radicalized any number of ways. I mean, I'm sure the authorities when they look at this incident, the shooting, and they do a background investigation on who Ashley Babbitt was, they'll find out that there was somebody in her life that was influential and likely brought her into this movement, or she could have been introduced, you know, through the propaganda on the internet. But these people, you know, they get sucked into these different extremist movements. And you know, this disinformation that the Trump administration have been putting out about the rigged election and voter fraud. People have very, you know, passionate opinions about these false claims. And so they get kind of consumed into this, you know, world of conspiracy theories and misinformation. And because they love their country so much. They take action because of it. And it's unfortunate that, you know, these people, you know, get introduced to this type of stuff and get actively involved in it to the point where they do things that they normally wouldn't have done. And it cost us young woman her life.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  39:14

She seems to be really passionate person and paid with her life for all of that. I mean, I don't want to sound sympathetic to somebody who is invading, but a young person. I mean, five people died during this thing, and including an officer who was beaten to death by these people. And who was a, by the way, that police officer was a Trump voter. a supporter of Trump, a Republican will write to Congress person who was a democrat politely insisting on his views. A good human being who was a republican and Trump supporter was beaten to death by these people. So they say that this lady, Miss Bebek was, you know, through Qanon Qanon theories, she bought into that that? You know, Trump is destined to take care of this camal of child abuser and Satan worshipping Democrats. What is this thing about child abusers satanic? I'm in first define what is Q anon? No. Who are these people? And who started that thing?

Daryl Johnson  40:31

Yes, so the media has done some investigation and determined that there's like three or four people that were involved in spreading are starting this Qanon and conspiracy theory. What it is, is a conspiracy theory by this person that they call Q, because he supposedly has this high level clearance in the government called a Q clearance. And he's remained anonymous, since that's where the and and part of the Qanon and conspiracy comes from, is this Q person that's anonymous, who's supposedly leaking inside information from the government about, you know, impending arrests against Democratic leaders, these false allegations that there's this secret pedophile network within the Democratic Party, that they're secretly being led by, you know, satanic influence, to take away our rights and erode our constitution and turn us into this socialist, communist type government. So there's all kinds of little, you know, what they call Q drops, which is this inside information, these, you know, disinformation, really, about the secret going on, and the high levels of government that they're sharing with the general public. And so it creates this atmosphere that these people are getting this firsthand information from this high government ranking person with this special access to information. And so it really comes across as something that sounds credible. And you know, people are gullible, and they believe anything.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  42:11

So Q is some type of existing government category of high level clearance. And they believe there is somebody in the government with that clearance who gives them information, to mobilize the people to be true patriots supporting the government, deal with the bad guys who happen to be all Democrats, and they're all child molesters, and Oh boy.

Daryl Johnson  42:40

And so as you can imagine, you know, people are very passionate about protecting children's rights. And when you make these types of allegations, it can really tug at somebody's heart and mind to get them really committed and involved in these types of things. But like I said, the media has investigated it, they've linked it back to these three or four individuals who basically set up the websites and we're communicating this information from this anonymous person, they still yet to identify who Q actually is, or whether this person is just a figment of these three individuals imagination.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  43:15

So three individuals are known individuals, but who is q isn't known.

Daryl Johnson  43:20

Right? It can be a fictitious person that these people invented, or it could actually be another person. That's, you know, making up these lies and spreading this misinformation.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  43:30

That's amazing. But but there are publicly elected people. I mean, this Derek Evans guy, who was the republican elected officers in the West Virginia, who just lost who had to resign because he was live streaming what he was doing. So do you think all of them are influenced by Qanon ideology, or it is a different variation of people?

Daryl Johnson  44:00

Right, not everybody in the republican party or conservatives adhere to this belief system is the more radical people. And in fact, there were, I believe, close to 80 different individuals across the United States running for political office on this past election, that adhered and openly admitted that they adhere to this Qanon conspiracy theory. I must say that the FBI because of some of the actions by some of these Qanon followers, adhering to this conspiracy theory has determined that Qanon is actually a domestic terrorist threat. That's that's growing in its level of danger. And we saw that not only with some of the past plotting and activities by these people, but with their recent participation in this capital insurrection,

Abdul Malik Mujahid  44:49

but their website and these things are still active or there is some action taken on that.

Daryl Johnson  44:56

You know, they have websites and social media. That's friendly. conspiracy theory, Facebook just recently did a major purge as well as Twitter of trying to get rid of these accounts that spreads this ideology. But you know, they've got other ways to communicate, and they'll just migrate to another platform and regather there. And so this information, leaks out in different forms, whether it's through emails, you know, on social media or a website. And then people propagate it on their own personal, social media and websites, and by word of mouth, and so it's really kind of difficult to, you know, totally get rid of it. Because if people believe in it, they're gonna find a way to communicate about it.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  45:40

Tell me a little bit. I mean, I am curious, though, this was just a couple of people who are doing that there was a shirtless man wearing face paint and a horn, hat and all that. What does that symbolize? I mean, I saw three, four people who have this type of fire with them. Are they symbolizing some type of pioneering spirit or something?

Daryl Johnson  46:06

You know, you probably have to ask them, my guess would be, you know, they're kind of going back to their Nordic heritage, you know, the white race coming out of Northern Europe and Europe, and just dressing dressing in costume to get attention. But I personally don't know what the motivations or personal beliefs of those individuals wearing those types of costumes, we saw other costumes present like people dressing in colonial America. You know, people dress like military personnel and things like that. So this is all just part of the so cultures that exists within these far right movements.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  46:45

Hillary Clinton today has written an op-ed in the Washington Post. And she says that she quotes the 911 Commission report that it says the most important failure, and I quote was one of imagination. We do not believe leaders understood the gravity of the threat, unquote. Do you think the same case applies to what has happened during this period? I mean, you I mean Homeland Security was a mega department to save what came out of 911? Right? Here we are, that the dismiss you and your your section who was investigating which was itself was just seven people, as compared to I don't know, how many hundreds who are investigating the other threats? So do you think this Hillary Clinton is right, that thinking that's a failure of imagination?

Daryl Johnson  47:47

Yes, so much like 911, I believe that this incident, the Capitol is going to have a similar type of effect on, you know, getting our legislature and our federal government and law enforcement authorities working together to combat a national security threat. Now, of course, the capital, you know, ceased and result in the same number of deaths or the same amount of property destruction as the 911 attacks, but it's surely pose a threat to our constitution to our Republic, and how our government functions. So the gravity of the situation, I think, you know, kind of parallels and is on par with what happened at 911. So, you know, obviously, the authorities didn't connect the dots in this case, much like in 911, there was plenty of chatter about violence that was going to occur. But yet, you know, there were institutional biases, and, you know, jurisdictional infighting that prevented these authorities to have enough physical protection and countermeasures in place to mitigate the threat. So, you know, I think it is a watershed moment, and we're going to be looking back on this moment, you know, a decade from now and say, This is the moment that we all, you know, had the resolve to finally recognize this threat and do something about it.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  49:11

Daryl, we just got a half a minute. Tell me this. What policies do you think President Elect should adopt? As soon as he you know, the first day in office in the first 30 days to realize that government is had to deal with a new threat, which is essentially, old threat, because you told people 10 years ago about this threat?

Daryl Johnson  49:37

Well, I can't cover everything within 30 seconds, but they can start with passing a domestic terrorism statute that delineates roles and responsibilities among federal agencies and hold them accountable for providing the information that we need to develop more strategies and tools to combat the problem. I think we also need to institute a nationwide program in our schools. Like the counter drug program or anti gang program, we need to have programs in our schools where students have clubs that get educated about the hate in America and the anti government and the dangers of conspiracy theories, to try to, you know, teach our young children that these forms of extremism and conspiracy theories are a threat, just like drugs, and gangs are a threat to our communities. So, you know, we need to work individually, together to, you know, identify threats in our community. If we have family members, or friends or co workers that are members of these extremist movements, rather than ostracize and distance yourself from them, try to embrace them with love and compassion, bring them back and re acclimate into our society and be productive citizens. So there's a lot of things that need to be done, in addition to having more analysts and police officers that are trained in this type of threat and how to recognize it, and how to combat it.

Abdul Malik Mujahid  51:02

Well, thank you so much, Daryl. Daryl Johnson is an expert on right wing terrorism, who many years ago, was leading the team in the Homeland Security Department about this threat. But his first report caused him to lose his job during the good old days of President Obama who caved in, instead of taking a stand and keeping an eye if it was great attention to we may not have seen the invasion of Capitol Hill by the terrorist, if we have paid attention, and organize. And thank you so much, Sherdil Khan and Dr. Waheed for producing today's show. And thank you for watching you're watching Muslim network TV. On galaxy 19 satellite we are on OTT devices Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Roku, you can download our app Muslim network TV, or check on our website, Muslim And if you are a person who is always on YouTube, you can watch us on YouTube. And when you do that, do subscribe to us peace Salaam

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