Mujahid Talks with Imam Malik Mujahid in conversation with KoAnn Vikoren Skrzyniarz, Manar Alattar and Tara Button
Interviewed: 11 AM Central Time Monday Dec 14. only on Muslim Network TV
Guests: KoAnn Vikoren Skrzyniarz - CEO/Founder, Sustainable Brands Worldwide Manar Alattar, Ph.D., Food Systems Researcher & Professor at University of Portland, Oregon Tara Button - Eco-campaigner, Entrepreneur & Author of "A Life Less Throwaway" Founder of BuyMeOnce
Host: Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid -- President of Sound Vision and Justice for All.
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Unoffical Transcript:
New York, there was a news that one in four New Yorkers are facing difficulties. Another headline was a two mile line in Arizona. Line for people waiting for food. A two mile line in Arizona, a four hour wait in Ohio, again, for the food bags. Millions seek help to avoid going hungry. These are the headlines, folks. So the way I am handling myself during this holiday season, although I'm a Muslim, not quite practicing Christmas, but holiday season is something everybody gets into buying and gifts and things like that. I select items and leave them in the basket for a couple of days or so and then I go back. So do I really need this thing? Do I have to buy it? Can I just live without it? And if I can escape that, can I contribute that money to people who are struggling right now. I mean, we have one organization and Chicago Council of Islamic organization of Greater Chicago, people who are struggling to pay their electricity or utility bill. They spend $1 million giving to those people just paying their bills not giving to them. And they were able to cover only 40% of the people who applied 60% are still in the waitlist while they ran out of the money. So people are struggling. So So what should be our personal behavior? But then it's a major thing the small things which we do to be thoughtful in buying and purchasing and spending and not being wasteful, do they make any difference? So today's show, we will explore this topic and we have just amazing people who are doing unique stuff in that area. We have KoAnn Skrzyniarz. Welcome to Muslim network TV and forgive me for is still not practicing enough your last name.
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 04:56
You did fine and it's lovely to be with you.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 04:59
Good. Thank you. So much. KoAnn is founder and CEO of Sustainable Brands. She also serves as faculty for Harvard leadership for sustainability executive education program. I don't know if executive could be educated, but we'll find out. We also have Manar Alattar. Welcome, assalamualykum.
Manar Alattar 05:26
Walaykum Assalam. Thank you for having me here.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 05:31
Manar is food system researcher and professor at University of Portland, Oregon. And we also have Tara Button. Welcome to Muslim network TV. Good afternoon for you in London, I guess.
Tara Button 05:48
Good Afternoon, it's lovely to be here.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 05:50
Okay. Tara Button has started something unique buymeonce. Alright. An author of A Life Less Throwaway. So thank you so much from different angles, we'll be talking about the same topic, essentially, our behavior. And to start off initially, those who gonna watch us right now and may or may not be tuning in for the whole 50 minutes, I hope you all stay, you will learn a great deal. I have gone through what these three people do. And it's just amazing work. So stay with us. But if you need just a summary of it. So what is your special advice during this holiday season, which is coming in pandemic, how people should be thoughtful when they're buying anything? Anyone, if you
Tara Button 06:46
I'll jump in Yeah. we have a shop that sells presents for Christmas. What we're hoping is that people will buy thoughtfully for the long term. Because it's very easy to pick up gifts, that maybe the customer will open them a bit of a long minute, sits in the corner gathering data for the rest of the rest of the year. And eventually, you know, maybe three years time someone throws it into landfill. And it's that type of waste, that we're really trying to reduce at buymeonce so we only sell things that will last years and years and years, because that's the best thing you can do for the environment.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 07:33
Yeah, but will we get bored with that thing?
Tara Button 07:37
Well, the human condition is that we do get bored of things. But the good thing about long-lasting products is that they hold their value. So even if you get bored of it, it still has life within it. And it can help someone else. So you can put it on eBay. And someone else can then you know, get life out of it. But hopefully, if you're buying intentionally and you get to know yourself really well, you can buy for the long term, and not kind of impulse buy where you end up with a wardrobe full of stuff that you know... it's nothing to wear because you bought it on a whim.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 08:15
Yeah, and we're boring and stress also is sort of a thoughtless word. Many time I learned from my children, it just gets used without anybody truly meaning that. So anyone else has any ideas about during holiday season, what will you be doing?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 08:38
We have a whole range of recommendations. This is a field that we've been working in for almost 20 years. And certainly going durable or buying products that hold their value is one really smart strategy. And happily is also on trend. From what we see, we see that that people across the US all demographic graphics, regardless of faith, or political affiliation, or geographic location, are really starting to deprioritize money and status and personal achievement and starting to pursue the search for meaningful connections to their family and the environment in their community in a more balanced and simple life. So having fewer higher quality things fits right into the trend that we're seeking. One of the things that that we really strongly advocate for is remembering every minute of every day that every dollar you spend is a vote for the feature you want. And I think if we realize that we you know, don't only vote once a year or twice a year, we vote every time we spend $1. That helps us be more thoughtful in the ways that we choose to consume. I'll pass the mic, but there are many other things that we can talk about in terms...
Abdul Malik Mujahid 09:58
I like that every dollar you spend, is a vote for the future
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 10:04
The future you want, yes.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 10:06
Future you want, Yeah. You're making a decision with your dollars, for future you want. I like that have you trademark that already?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 10:17
So many, many things to try and communicate.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 10:21
Okay...
Manar Alattar 10:24
The votes that we make, right, we eat many times a day. Yeah. So one of the votes that we put in not just once a month or once every holiday season, but every single time that we eat is really, you know, thinking about that food, but as not just an item, right. And I think that's what I'm going to encourage people to do, not just for the holiday season, but anytime throughout the year. Food is not only it's not only about physical meaning, but it's also a way that we connect with our family. It's a way that we connect with other folks. And it's a way that we vote with our dollar with our bodies. Many, many times a day, right? And so what I encourage my students to do, and I encourage folks to do is think of food not as an item, right? An apple is not an apple. It's a process, right? It's soil it's a seed it' a farmer, it's farmhands. It's a whole processing, from, you know, plant to plant going in, you know, being packaged, being processed, right, then going to the grocery store, if it makes it that far, right. And then maybe being selected, maybe being thrown out, right. And then if that food item that Apple is selected by us, we can call ourselves consumers when we talk about food, or we can just call ourselves eaters, right? Because all of us eat all of us eat every day. And so as the eater, then what happens to that Apple, right? Is it valued? Is it valued for the systems that came together in that apple? Is it valued for the people that were brought together through that Apple or not, right, and so especially at times, when we're coming together to eat together, maybe a little bit less so during these virtual holidays, but generally speaking, still, we're coming together to eat together, really thinking about the life of those foods, thinking about choosing them carefully, planning out your meal, portioning, correctly, feeding yourself quality food, that came maybe from local sources, that came from people that you know, that have a lesser impact on the environment, and then saving, reusing re-portioning those foods for later as well sharing with neighbors, so on and so forth, so that they're not wasted. And all of those things that have been put into those items are not wasted as well.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 12:44
KoAnn, you mentioned that trends are in the right directions. Could we do a little more on that, because, you know, in my street, for example, we're just two people, me and my neighbor, who you know, Monday morning is when they collect recyclable items once a week, and the whole street of I think 12 homes, these are the only two and they have been to for a long period of time. So so but but but you probably are studying these things, I'd like to know, what are the trends, you know, in thoughtfulness among the consumers?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 13:27
Well, I think just to speak to that, one of the the corollary realities that we recognize is that consumers, there's a significant gap between what consumers today are intending and what they actually do. And part of that is about just a lack of understanding, confusion, a sense of overwhelm, and a sense that maybe their own individual choices and actions may not make a significant difference. And so we're working hard with the constituencies that we work with every day, which tend to be either global multinational brands or breakthrough startups to come together to try and help be support behavior change amongst the consumer base. So we have a ripe audience of people who are really recognize that, that the notion that we are defined as consumers is unhealthy for us, and it's unhealthy for our communities, and it's unhealthy for the planet. We want to get people back to thinking about themselves as citizens instead of consumers. And then we just need to inspire, equip, and enable them to make the choices that they really are recognizing they would like to make, through, you know, simplifying the number of things that that that they focus on when they make purchasing decisions. I think this notion of the impact of food, touches on several key behaviors that are impactful. You mentioned buy local and buying local is one of those things eating more plants is a choice that's simple, that can have a massive impact on the environment. Go durables another one, right? If you were to look at sdbrands.com you can your listeners can see nine core consumer behaviors that, you know, consumers or citizens can wrap their head around and really start thinking about as they make their daily choices.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 15:27
Tara, are what are the big trends and UK and and Europe? Unless Brexit law don't allow you could talk about Europe.
Tara Button 15:38
Yeah, I mean, goodness, is what's happening in Europe right now. I mean, what we've found over COVID is that people are thinking much more about their homes. And they're they're much less interested about what they're wearing, because no one's seeing them. I would a say fashion's kind of gone out the window a little bit. And it's now about, you know, the everyday comforts that make you feel okay, and the home everyone's looking for something to make them feel a little bit better. What the good news is, is that we have seen a trend towards buying quality over quantity. And also buying, buying secondhand is having a huge.. as well and renting instead of buying. I think what KoAnn says is absolutely right, there's a gap between what people want to do and what they say they want to do, and that they do care about the environment. They care about people. But then when it comes to their actual buying behavior, they fall back into what's convenient, and their old habits. So what we need more people like buymeonce and they're popping up all the time. And a way of making it incredibly convenient to do the right thing. Because if you make it as easy to do the right thing as to do the wrong thing, then generally people will choose with their conscience.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 17:05
You're watching Muslim network TV, this is imam Malik Mujahid and I'm talking with three experts KoAnn, Manar, and Tara and we'll be right back after these messages.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 17:47
Welcome back to Muslim network TV. This is Imam Malik Mujahid and with me are three experts about thoughtful consumptions and welcome back to Muslim network TV. This is Imam Mailk Mujahid and with me are three experts about thoughtful consumption. Okay, sorry about that little glitch. It has never happened in six, six months, we are doing our show. But we'll we'll we'll have to, I guess edit this show for post, it's strange. So one of the question I have for all of you is that you know what questions people should ask, before they buy anything. I mean, you have been dwelling a little bit on it, can we do in a little more detail? Anyone one of you can start.
Tara Button 18:45
Oh, well, what I say people should do before they do anything is write a list of things that you don't need. We're very used to writing lists of things that we want to think that we think that we need. But actually, when you write a list of things that you don't need, you really come to appreciate all the things that you have. And it also stops you from falling into bad habits. So for example, I am addicted to buying notebooks. So when I put I do not need any more notebooks, onto my list of things that I don't need, I've kind of made a contract with myself not to over buy. And I think when it comes to deciding whether you want to spend money on things, I think always um, look to think about what else you could spend that money on to bring you overall joy and happiness because generally if you write down the 10 most expensive things in your life, they're probably not the things that bring you the most happiness. It's things like the experiences that you have with your family, and the connections that you make. And um spending money on being able to do that with friends and family. And although obviously it's very difficult right now during COVID, I think makes you reprioritize perhaps where your money should be. And then secondly, find out what kind of taste you have, you know, what is the look that you want in your home for if you're buying something for yourself, because I think lots of people buy things on a whim. And they get swayed by advertising and trends, and they end up with a kind of mismatch of everything, which creates a churn in your life, which creates a huge amount of waste. So taking the time to take a step back and really getting to know your own tastes. And the taste you're going to have in the future is going to stop you from buying something that you won't like in in a few years time.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 20:45
Hmm, wow. So making a list of which I don't want to buy that will be pretty big volume for me. So So what do you think? Are there are some brands which we can put down buy these brands?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 21:03
Oh, I'm not sure I understand your question except to say that there are many companies around the world that are beginning to be incredibly mindful about how they produce what they produce and how they produce their products. So definitely one of the things to do other than I would say, watch Marie Kondo, if you haven't seen her, really just to reinforce Tara's point, does a great job of expressing the power of curating your own space. But in terms of, you know, who you choose to purchase from a little research, and the companies and brands that you buy goes a long way. And that because there are both retailers and product and service brands that are very intentional about their footprint in the world, both socially and environmentally. And once you can uncover some of those brands and become loyal to them, you again, influence the competitive landscape in the direction that we all hope that it will go going forward.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 22:01
You said a consumer Association, who goes independently who does not accept any advertisement and funding who assesses these mega national Corporation whose supply chains could be, you know, blood diamonds that involve slave laborers in China for Uyghur people is involved. So is there anybody who independently invest time and money to research these things?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 22:31
I think this is part of the challenge in the landscape is that they think, last count and I had stopped counting several years ago, they were something on the order of 450, eco labels or social social impact labels that represent organizations that are focused on one particular issue or another that matter to our future health as a, as a species and as a planet. And that becomes very confusing. So I would say there isn't really one, you know, organization that a consumer can go to, there are more and more organizations like Tara's who are really attempting to become a filter for consumers to purchase through to make smart choices. Even Amazon has recently launched just in the last month, or maybe six weeks or so a new labeling system on their site that helps their consumers select more sustainable options. They basically distilled down that long list of eco labels into the top most credible and influential and impactful certifications, I think there may be 20 , 29 of them or something. So they actually show on the on the purchasing page, those labels so that you can make better choices.
Manar Alattar 23:56
And when it comes to food as well, there are items that are very specific food items that you can kind of think about, right? So first start off with thinking about food as a whole system. But there are high impact foods meats, for example, KoAnn had mentioned beef, specifically at the very top of that, right? So we talk a lot about climate change. But the impact of food specifically within climate change is very disproportionate compared to things like transportation, and other things that sometimes we focus even more on. But really the power that we have to change, the impact on climate change through food is huge, and specifically around meat. So as Muslims, you know, meat is halal, but we know within our religion that there's so many constructs around how is the meat slaughtered, you know, think remembering God when you're eating in general and meat, specifically, humane practices, so on and so forth, right. And so bringing that into the context of sustainability and your personal interactions with food, so meat is one thing, shrimp, another thing. And then also things that are often wasted, for example in the home. So vegetables, fruits and vegetables, breads, even though they have a lesser impact, they are greatly kind of wasted in the home. Other things to think about are things like food labels, right? food labels, as with, you know, different types of eco labeling, food date labeling can be very confusing. So thinking about using the food for a longer period of time, by just using your senses, smell, taste, things like that, to see that does the food still has life in it. So also thinking about just little changes that you can make in your life in your eating pattern, maybe decrease the amount of meat, think about sourcing meat locally, our local halal stores, oftentimes they are working with local farmers, right, so support them as well. And so these are things that we can do in our household as well to think about our impact on the climate globally, right.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 26:08
Yeah, I will look at you know, Amazon labeling in that way, because sometime I spend a lot of time looking where that product originated, and you cannot find it. And and there's a you know, in olive oil, I thought oh these are from, you know, California. So let me buy from the US. And instead of imported one, only to find out the big labels is California olive oil. At the bottom somewhere, it says list five, six countries around the world where they have imported, I mean, this is just a not an easy job one has to very thoroughly, but talking, when are you talking about things and you say that you teach these things to students are there students who are willing to pay to learn these things?
Manar Alattar 26:57
Well, if just in general, right, if we're talking about impacts on social systems, political systems, environmental systems, anyone who has interest in their impact on the world needs to know about food, right. And so when you have students that are starting to learn about the impact that they're having, you will continuously have those students butting up against food, food food, I need to know about my food, I need to know as you just mentioned, like food can say that it's produced locally in the US, oftentimes that's packaged much of our meat, almost all of our seafood, right, and many of our fruits and vegetables come from overseas. And a lot of those systems that mess our food are inefficient, and they're socially unjust. There's so many issues around our food, right? And we're literally eating people's blood, sweat and tears through the food that we have. Just looking at farmers in the United States, we will have some of the highest suicide rates across any occupation. Also, globally, farmers are in stress and in distress, right. And that is very much out of sight out of mind. Right to the point where some of us have never even planted a seed. We don't know that a paddy in a hamburger is actually hundreds of cattle from all over the world mixed together. We don't know these things, we don't have these perceptions. And so you'd be surprised a student's take their journey through, you know, their careers, and they start to learn about their impact, they're continuously being reminded that food is the place, food is really the place to be when it comes to climate change, when it comes to social impacts when it comes to political impacts. And so the journey that students have, and so one of the projects that I have been do is just plant a seed. Plant seed, and then from either from that seed item or from a similar item from the store, make a meal, record that meal and a video recipe and share it with someone. Right? And you'd be amazed at the responses I get from students I've never planted food before I didn't realize how much goes into it, didn't realize how important it is to make a meal to share a meal to during COVID to produce a video to help other people learn how to make a meal, right. So food is very interconnected. And that makes it complex but it also makes it very intimate. And it makes it where one of us can really tap into the global system in our everyday just you know in the cup of water that I'm drinking or the sandwich that I have for lunch, right.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 29:34
Thank you Manar. But KoAnn, I mean she brought Manar brought conversation about you know the food and farming and the you know the high suicide rate among the farmers in the US. And right now, all the Indian farmers I mean 50% of their economy and workers are farmers. They are on a strike and for several weeks now protesting for their rights. So farmers voices hardly heard anywhere it seems. So do you have any thought about who are the people who are very thoughtfully dealing with the issues farmers face who nobody knows what contribution they have to the world?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 30:25
Absolutely, there are a number of multinational companies who are very conscious of this problem and very much working to help overcome it. Companies like Unilever, like land lakes, like Patagonia who's got into actually influencing sustainable food production. The list goes on. Bumblebee is a company that's very much looking at sustainable fisheries. So I'm I'm I'm very hopeful about that. I think all these multinationals have the potential to have massive influence on our systems. And I really appreciate the continued call towards buying local and source sourcing local, I think that's a fundamental bit of advice that applies to as many of the things that we buy as we can possibly apply it to. I love what's happening in the hydroponics field where there's a real explosion starting to come about around enabling local food production in environments that have been up till now or are becoming difficult to grow food in because of climate change. So I do think there's a lot of innovation that will enable more and better choices for consumers. I also just love what's happening in many of the retail, large scale retail brands where there's a focus, I think, started by "enter marcei?" in in France, around reusing food waste taking food that has been outdated or is no longer looks good. It's either ugly food, or it's it's food that's lost a shelf life and in the store, actually remanufacturing and into soups and juices and other things. So they move towards reduction of waste it's a really...
Abdul Malik Mujahid 32:18
there is a part in the US which sells ugly food.
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 32:22
Yeah, exactly
Abdul Malik Mujahid 32:23
Costlier than the pretty food for some reason.
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 32:27
this, this is the power of the scale of good ideas. Because again, that idea started in France, and it's really caught hold by from people like Walmart, all the way down to local entrepreneurs. So it's, it's a great thing to see.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 32:41
Yeah. And this you know in pandemic, something, some small things haven't one cannot regret so much about the loss of so many, you know, close to 3000 300,000 in America, and more than a couple of million around the world. But there are things people are doing which is you know, based on this the conclusion one of the thing is gardening. When midsummer, I didn't have the type of seed I wanted for my fall. And I started looking around and none are available. Seeds are gone from the market. Now I'm almost every week I have put it on my calendar, going to certain website and checking if seeds are available there is still not available for the spring season. So I you know, so people are getting into some of the basic which people have forgotten about it. You're watching Muslim network TV, and I have three amazing guests, KoAnn, Manar and Tara and we'll be right back after these messages.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 34:26
Welcome back to Muslim network TV. This is Imam Malik Mujahid. KoAnn you were talking about I mean, it's somewhat positive way about some food production companies and corporate entities. At the same time you have a campaign stop hate for profit, which you know, in which a few months ago you decided not to have paid advertisement to Facebook. Although we're not going to be discussing that, but this remains a challenge. I mean, I work as a human rights activist on the different human rights councils. And they have seen this social media in America election related but in, in, in, in Myanmar Burma, I mean, Facebook essentially was the tool which actually resulted in a genocide. Same thing is happening in India now, and there are a lot of studies and lynching is taking place in India towards low-caste people. And low-caste many time happened to be Christians or Muslims. And so, so how that popped into your brand, you know, campaigns?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 35:51
Well, this is not, this is not a campaign that we started, it's a campaign that we joined. I think there's two things in that. One is, you know, we are in the midst of a time in history where story wars are amongst the most powerful wars that that we that are waging, and it's incredibly troubling to, to watch that reality unfold. And something we need to be conscious of, I think, the divisiveness or I can't speak, then I'm not sure that I could speak to the specific but I was, I advise a one of the largest multinational brands in the world. And when I was speaking to their CFO, recently, I asked him what kept him up at night and he said, nationalism, I think we're all really concerned about, you know, the recent focus on trying polarization and trying to polarize all of us that's happening internationally. And it's troubling. You know, it's the trying to discern how to walk the line between enabling free and open speech and disabling untruth is is something that we're all going to have to continue to figure out how to wrestle with.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 37:14
Recently, I was reading actually, not recently, just this morning, I was reading about some production. So Apple TV, among the things which have formally informed producers not to have on Apple TV, is nudity. And also, any criticism of China. You know, while you know, corporate world is worried about nationalism, because nationalism sometime can get into economic, economic nationalism, as well, and also against the purpose of free trade and all that, but at the same time, it could be an instrument towards the corporate responsibility if, you know, Apple has a market in China, and now, they don't want any product. And the same thing happened to me when I visited Hollywood, I was looking for a PR firm, to speak up on a human rights causes. And and people, you know, I work on Uyghur cause, which is people who are in concentration camps, largest concentration camps, Cystinosis, in China, and, and people love to agency after agency will give me cold shoulders, and one was a little blunt and Frank, and she told me, you know, you are out of your mind that nobody will kill themselves their career, by speaking a word against China. I said, What do you mean? He said, Well, because most of the industry, most of the films are one way direct indirectly are funded by China, but also it's a huge market. So any actor or a director who gonna help you, essentially will have to think about the future. I mentioned, Richard Gere, so she told me, tell me how many films he has recently worked on, because he's, you know, it brought the Dalai Lama and Tibetan cause. So in this way, you know, responsibility of organizations which are independent of these consent to be able to influence and communicate with I have a meeting it's scheduled to talk to Apple, at least they were willing to talk. But Google does not even want to talk. Apple tells you what are their sources of their products, I mean who is in the chain. Google doesn't give out what is their list of chains for example, and doesn't want to have communication So so you know that that brings me to a bigger thing, which somebody mentioned, and I will read that statement for you. Conscious consumerism is a lie. That was the subject heading of that article. And as she goes on small steps taken by thoughtful consumers, to recycle to eat locally to buy blouse made of organic cotton instead of polyester, will not change the world. How do you react to that?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 40:37
Well, I vehemently disagree. And I think that's it's very disempowering. I will. I will say, though, that what we are about meaning what we need to be doing today, in as we go into 2021, is shifting the entire economic system because and, you know, what's been at the root of our ambition at sustainable brands, is to change the narrative to two ways that was predominant when we got started. One is this notion that business is the enemy of our future. And the other is that, that the focus of corporate good behaviors should be about responsibility. It's not it is about responsibility. But until we start reframing our work and our conversation around opportunity, we're going to lose the kind of momentum that is possible if we, you know, if we start to think about shifting the world to benefit environmental and social or future to be about a business opportunity, and that that requires that the whole system, you know, work together around that. So if consumers start making choices to purchase from companies that are doing the right thing that will enable more and more right behavior from companies, if companies take action, like that, the number of companies that don't remember what the total number of companies that signed up to that Facebook initiative were but it was over 250, something, maybe maybe more than that, those companies were voting for the future that they want. And it's one of the reasons we chose to work with branded companies is because brands sit at the center of the economic ecosystem, and have the power to help influence consumers to understand what right choice looks like. And then when they can get the consumers to make right choices, the brands then have the the power to go change, supply chain, you know, behaviors and norms and material use and in all kinds of other aspects of the economic system. So that's that's starting to happen. And I feel very encouraged as a result of that.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 42:48
How do you communicate with with with these multinational and brands?
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 42:54
How do we communicate with them?
Abdul Malik Mujahid 42:56
Yeah.
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 42:57
Well, we have a digital publishing platform that is global, we produce conferences around the world, we have a corporate member network, where a lot of these major companies come together to talk about these issues and problems. We've created a an organizational transformation framework that defines what a sustainable brand of the future is, and all the stages of maturity that are required for companies to take steps to get there. So in many ways face to face again, I'm personally advising one of the US major retailers and one of the largest multinationals in the world. So multiple levels of communication.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 43:39
Okay, Tara, do you when you when you select a brand, oh, and this is a big commitment, you're saying buy something which lasts, and you're selling that, are you able to communicate with these suppliers in a way that it influences their behavior for the long term.
Tara Button 44:00
We definitely have done in the past, because we get all of our products in to have a look at them. There was one of our suppliers, for example, that changed their factory. And when the new products were sent to us, we weren't happy with the quality of of the item. And we said, We're really sorry, we're going to have to take this item off the site. And because we just don't feel that it's it has the same quality as it had before. And that actually got the brand to change the battery back to the original one. So we definitely have the power to influence and I would say that your the article that you that you reference is definitely wrong because you something like 70% of the impact, climate impact is directly attributed to choices that we as consumers make, um and we know that those choices are changing. Amazon would not be launching a big eco drive with eco labeling on all of their products, if it wasn't for smaller companies like myself, who have eaten into, you know, the share of what people are buying in there, all these eco companies popping up, and Amazon has been losing some of their sales. And they've realized that consumers want eco products, and therefore they're launching their own range. And so ,and so , the shift is happening. So yeah, sorry, to the person that wrote that article.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 45:34
Yeah consumerism, conscious conscious consumerism is a lie. What do you say Manar?Two votes are gone against that.
Manar Alattar 45:45
Well, I'm gonna say that there's truth in the idea. But we have the power to change that truth, right? Because there's truth in the fact that we are constantly being influenced by so many different message around messages around us. Some of those are direct, conscious messages. Some of those are subconscious messages. So for example, when we go to the grocery store, I mean, if you just look at the layout of the grocery store, where products are placed in the grocery store aisles, and where the soda is, for example, where you know, as you're checking out, all the things that are in the checkout aisle, the grocery store is, is a great case study of the way in which our decisions are controlled, right, and the way in which companies have put decades and decades of research into getting us to make subconscious and unconscious choices that promote wealth over health. I mean, maybe health, it could be important if it would correlate with wealth. But really the top that the top kind of concerned is these big companies, and so on and so forth. But if we can understand those things, if we can understand the messaging that we're getting through marketing, if we can understand the messaging that we're getting through product placement, I mean, just think of this for a second, you walk the store as an adult, is very different than you walking the store as a child. I mean, if you wanted to be really awkward and do a squat and walk the store as a child, you would see different products at the lower eye level of a child, right, you would see the more sugary cartoon images, more colorful packaging, so on and so forth at the child's eye level than at the adult eye level, right, you'll see main brands at the adult eye level, and you'll see not non name brand just above and just below, right, what you see on the ends of the aisles. So this is an example of, of the engineering, the architecture, even the smells, that you're smelling in the grocery store, right? The sampling stations, they're architectured in a way to change your behavior, but if you understand those messages, if you understand that marketing, if you understand the forces that are working towards changing your behavior, and then you can work against them. So it's all about really educating the consumer, the eater, but not just educating them. Because just because we know doesn't mean we do, right, also changing the structures, the economic, social, you know, business structures in which we exist, so that as the consumer becomes more educated, those systems become more sustainable. And then there's a match between what the consumer is intending to do and is motivated to do to change the world's environmental, social, political structures for the better, and what they have the capacity to do, because of the systems that are available to them.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 48:35
So if the consumption is the backbone of economy, especially in America, and marketing budgets are not available to any three of you who are trying to educate, but marketing budgets are available to multinationals, don't you think this conscious consumerism is basically bound to fail because you don't have the money which marketing people do?
Manar Alattar 49:04
Money is one thing, but willpower can be very strong, too, right? If you can get folks together, then you can start to change those narratives that impact marketing that marketing feeds off of as well.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 49:16
Okay, as we conclude each one of you give just 15 second answer to that.
KoAnn Skrzyniarz 49:26
I'll just say that the world is changing. And multinationals recognize that that current our current economic paradigm is not sustainable, and are motivated to change. They realize that consumer sentiment is changing, as Tara said, as we've all discussed, and they are working to use all of the talents and skills that they have developed to help influence consumer behavior to try to start nudging it in the right direction. If again, sdbrands.com will give you a sense of some of the companies and some of the behavior changes that that they're working on to try and support for conscious consumption.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 50:01
Ok Tara, you'll get the last word.
Tara Button 50:04
I don't think you necessarily need money to reach people. When I started buymeonce we had 600,000 people came to the website in a couple of days. And that was with absolutely no marketing budget. It was the power of people all around the world going, "Look at this. I think this is a good idea. We should support this." And I think if you've got good ideas, and you've got the right mood of the people, you can do anything.
Abdul Malik Mujahid 50:30
Thank you so much amazing conversation and I definitely have learned things and will be more thoughtful. Thank you KoAnn thank you, Manar, and thank you, Tara. Thank you so much. And thank you Sherdil Khan and Dr. Abdul Waheed for producing today's show. This is Imam Malik Mujahid and thank you so much for watching. Keep watching Muslim network TV, we are always there on galaxy 19 satellite 24 seven at the same time on Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, as well as on our website or you can download our app on Muslim network TV on your iPhone or Android. Peace, salaam
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